INTERVIEW de Larry king (suite)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BERGMAN: We made a picture together called "Casablanca." I was delighted because I had admired Bogart very much as an actor. I found him fascinating. There was something mysterious about him. And it was dangerous. There was danger around him. And with all his toughness and roughness, you still felt that behind it all, there was a tender heart. (END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: It's hard to believe how much of a fuss this caused -- front page news, the Senate condemning an actress. The United States Senate condemned her. One of the senators, Edwin Johnson (ph), a Democrat of Colorado, referred to her as "a horrible example of womanhood and a powerful influence for evil."Pia, how did your dad and you and the rest -- how did you handle all of this?
LINDSTROM: Well, not well. Quietly, painfully, and in solitude. That's I think what happened. It was incredibly difficult to see and observe a parent going from being a saint and a nun to being an evil harlot within a few months. I'm probably still reeling from the experience. I mean, there's no way to sort of accommodate that.
KING: Theaters stopped showing her films, right?
LINDSTROM: Oh, yes. And she -- oh, she couldn't come back to the United States. Nobody wanted to work with her. Although interestingly enough, she had her friends. Her agent always stayed with her. There were people who were very, very loyal to her and loved her and stood by her. Irene Selznick, you know, David Selznick's wife, they were...
KING: Why...
LINDSTROM: There were plenty of people like that.
KING: Isabella, why was her marriage to Rossellini so short?
ISABELLA ROSSELLINI: I think the pressure. The exterior pressure was enormous. The film that (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the first attraction to one another was the artistic attraction, and they fell in love. My mother wrote him a letter. My mother has seen my dad's film. My father did a first film called "Rome Open City." The film is called -- the critics give it a name.
It was so new, they called it "new realism." It looked like a documentary, and yet it was a feature film. Anna Magnani, the great Italian actress, was seen for the first time, completely different than a Hollywood access. She was unkempt, bags under her eyes, and yet with a vitality and a strength, a new woman, if you want. My father's film portrayed the difficulties that Italian people had. It wasn't a film about the war but about the civilian and how the civilian lived the war.
KING: That attracted your mother to him, right?
ISABELLA ROSSELLINI: I think so.
KING: She wanted to work with him?
ISABELLA ROSSELLINI: She wanted to work with him. And my mother wrote him a letter, and my dad received the letter in Italy, bombarded Italy with (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in flame and all that. But that letter was saved. And Father received the letter, and he couldn't believe. It would be as if, you know, an Iraqi director nowadays received a letter from Julia Roberts, you know?
(LAUGHTER)
KING: Well put.
ISABELLA ROSSELLINI: And my mother was also a very, very good friend of Hemingway, and I think that had a lot to do with it. She felt she was European. She felt probably very moved by the war. And seeing this film, she felt she could participate in -- somehow.
KING: Ingrid, why do you think the marriage didn't last?
INGRID ROSSELLINI: Probably, what Isabella said is very true. But it's also true that they were very different people. And what she said -- they were attracted to one another -- Mama was very attracted to Father for his work.But personality-wise,they were so incredibly different. And it was funny to see them together because Mama was so, you know, down to earth, and Father was such a dreamer.
But they remained wonderful friends, and that's the important thing. Even -- you know, every time Mama would come to visit us in Rome or Paris, Father would come and was very tender, very affectionate toward Mama. They were really -- they remained wonderful friends. I think they always loved each other in some sort of way.
KING: Did your father remarry, Ingrid?
INGRID ROSSELLINI: Yes, he did, with an Indian lady. He went to do a film in India and found a wonderful new wife. And had more children.
KING: Isabella, did your mother remarry after Roberto?
ISABELLA ROSSELLINI: Yes. My mother remarried with Lars Schmidt (ph), who is still alive. Unfortunately, everybody else is gone.
KING: Yes.
ISABELLA ROSSELLINI: But Lars is still alive and lives in Paris and spent the summer in Sweden.
KING: Were you close with him?
ISABELLA ROSSELLINI: Very close to him. I am so glad to still have Lars because it was very hard to lose our parents in our 20s, so at least we have our stepfather.
KING: Pia, is he technically your stepfather?
LINDSTROM: Lars Schmidt?
KING: Yes.
LINDSTROM: Well...
KING: I guess he is.
LINDSTROM: Well, not anymore because they got divorced, so he's an ex-stepfather.
KING: Oh, they were divorced, too?
LINDSTROM: I have several ex-stepfathers. I try to include them all. Yes. So actually -- you know, some people just take on the role of being a stepfather or father. And Lars is one of those people. He didn't let the divorce stop him from continuing to be our stepfather.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: Did Dr. Lindstrom remarry?
LINDSTROM: Yes, he did. He married a physician, as well as himself, and they had four children who are in California and Idaho.
KING: Wow. And he passed when?
LINDSTROM: A couple of years ago.
KING: And when did Ingrid die?
LINDSTROM: Twenty years.
ISABELLA ROSSELLINI: Twenty-one years ago, '82.
KING: How old was she, Isabella?
ISABELLA ROSSELLINI: She was 65 years old only.
KING: What did she die of?
ISABELLA ROSSELLINI: She was very young. She died of breast cancer.
KING: They caught it too late?
ISABELLA ROSSELLINI: Well, they caught it -- I think -- no, she survived many years with it. She was very determined not to go to great extent, to chemotherapy. She didn't want to lose her hair. And at the time, the chemotherapy was very, very strong. And she was very determined. She was very healthy all her life, and I think imagining herself handicapped, she -- I don't think she wanted to live as handicapped.
KING: We'll take a break, and we'll talk about Ingrid's return to the United States, the filming of "Anastasia" and the return to prominence of Ingrid Bergman. Her three daughters are our guests. We'll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP - "ANASTASIA")
BERGMAN: A moment or two longer, a moment more to be with you, to pretend you do not think what you do, to close my eyes and pretend it is years ago, a terrace in the summer sun. No. No, no. I promise. I promise I will not say names or places. The smell of the sea air, the sound of a tennis ball, the laughter from the courts behind the trees -- and your voice calling me, Malenka (ph).
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
I. BERGMAN: All right. I tried to reason with you. I tried everything. Now I want those letters. Get them for me.
BOGART: I don't have to, I've got them right here.
I. BERGMAN: Put them on the table.
BOGART: No.
I. BERGMAN: For the last time, put them on the table.
BOGART: If Laszlo and the cause mean so much to you, you won't stop at anything. All right. I'll make it easier for you. Go ahead and shoot, you'll be doing me a favor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Welcome back to LARRY KING LIVE. We are celebrating the 60th anniversary of one of the great classic films, "Casablanca." It is being re-released on DVD by Warner Home Video.
And our special guests are all in New York,Isabella Rossellini, the daughter of Ingrid Bergman and Roberto Rossellini, an actress very much in her own right. Ingrid Rossellini, Isabella's twin sister, daughter of Ingrid and Roberto Rossellini. And Pia Lindstrom, the daughter of Ingrid Bergman and Dr. Peter Lindstrom, and of course involved in all of that.
How did she get -- tell me, Isabella, about the coming back to the United States? How did that happen? How did "Anastasia" happen?
ISABELLA ROSSELLINI: She was offered to do "Anastasia" on -- the marriage with my father was rocky. My father was very against mother coming back to Hollywood. He couldn't understand how she would want to come back to Hollywood that hurt her so much, and said all these terrible things and chased her away, exiled her. But mother was determined to come back.
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Though she never came back to live in the United States, but to come back and work with other directors, other than my father's, or Jean Renoir. These were the only two that my father allowed.And she accepted the role of Anastasia. And the film was shot in Europe, so she was able to do it. And she won an Oscar.
KING: She did. Because I know the Senate, Senator Charles Percy of Illinois, entered the apology, the Senate apologized in 1972 and put that apology into the congressional record. How was she treated when she came back, Ingrid?
INGRID ROSSELLINI: Well, she was treated with tremendous affection and admiration and love. Really welcomed back. And I think that was so rewarding for her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have any criticism of the way the press, in general, handled the story of your life?
I. BERGMAN: Well, sure I have some criticism of it, becuase I think that the person has to have a private life. But I also know that if you choose being an actress, you have to take both sides of the coin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
INGRID ROSSELLINI: But it was such a wonderful feeling that people that have loved her still did love her. Maybe the Senate, there were harsh words toward her, but I think the public always loved her, and she was really welcomed with open arms.
KING: Pia, what do you make of it?
LINDSTROM: Well, no, I have a slightly different take on it. I think she paid her penance. I think she has been sent away, like sent to Siberia and done her time, and for her crime, and that now she could be welcomed back, and so much had happened in between, and morals and mores have changed, and people had new attitudes.
And the role of Anastasia was very carefully chosen. That's not just by accident. A woman who appears to be a downcast person who lives under bridges, turns out to be has a metamorphose into a princess and has a regal personage. So this transformative story was perfect for her to be transformed from being down in the depths of punishment and down in the dirt to return to her rightful place as a princess.
KING: What, Isabella, did she think of the United States?
ISABELLA ROSSELLINI: I think she loved the United States. She was very happy when, at 18, after Pia came to live with us in Rome, and that's how we got to know my sister Pia, and become family.
I decided to move to the United States, and mother was thrilled. She thought the United States is the place where you can bloom professionally, gives you all the opportunity that we don't have in Europe, there is not a class system, and mother was very democratic, being a Swede, and loved this about America.
No, she loved America, but she never wanted to come back. I think she got scared about these -- she would say to me that there was a puritanical streak in America that can become so aggressive, and she always feared that, to come back.
KING: Was she angry at America, Ingrid?
INGRID ROSSELLINI: No, angry, not. But Isabella is right when she says that she was -- she loved it, but for example, she never chose to live in the States, and she lived in Paris with Lars. When they got divorced she went to London and she loved London.
But -- and we were all in New York at that point. But I don't think she -- she never take into consideration to come to New York. She came often to visit, but she didn't choose to see it as the best place to live.
KING: Was she surprised, Pia, that she was welcomed?
LINDSTROM: I don't think she was that surprised. I think she somehow had visions of what her life was going to be and how it was going to turn out. I'm laughing a little when I was hearing about how -- you know, we never actually lived with our mother, anyways. It was sort of an odd thing. She always chose another country to live in.
KING: What do you mean? You never...
LINDSTROM: Well, she lived in France with Lars while Ingrid and Isa were in Italy, and then when we were all in New York, she lived in London. I mean, we never quite got the right...
(CROSSTALK)
ISABELLA ROSSELLINI: When my mother died, we took all her documents, and we put at them at the Westin (ph) University. And there was a diary of mother, that she started when she was 12. And the diary starts, "I'm very glad my dad gave me this diary, because I can keep a daily note -- record of when I will become a very famous actress." Mother knew since she was 12. It was a call for her. She used to say, "I didn't choose acting; acting chose me." It was a calling for her.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: How good -- Pia, you're a film critic, did a lot of that. How good an actress was Ingrid Bergman? She won three Academy Awards, right?
LINDSTROM: She did. And many nominations. You know, I think she improved tremendously during her lifetime. When she was very young, she had a quality that's almost indescribable, a luminescence. There was something in her skin and her eyes that just was a radiance. It's unusual. Maybe it's the bone construction. I'm not sure what it is. OThere is something in her, light that comes out. But it just glowed on the screen.
When she began to lose some of that beauty, and toward the end of her life, when she did things like "Autumn Sonata," I think that you can see what a really great actress she was. When you are very, very beautiful like that, you don't have to act quite as much in a certain sense. People read into your beauty their own emotions.
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But in "Autumn Sonata," she dug very deep, because that was a film she made with Ingmar Bergman, the Swedish director, about their lives and the difficulty of having children and being an artist, and that pull between the two. Where do you go? Do you follow your art, or do you stay home and take care of the children, because they have a cough?
KING: We'll be right back with the Rossellinis, Isabella and Ingrid, and Pia Lindstrom. More about their incredible mother. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're back with Isabella Rossellini, Ingrid Rossellini and Pia Lindstrom.
Did her roles kind of change after that? She played so, as you said, she played nuns and saints. Did they change much, Isabella?
ISABELLA ROSSELLINI: Yes, they did. I think from the beginning, mother came also from the European tradition of an actor imagining itself being transformed. You know, in America, the stars are always the same. Cary Grant is always Cary Grant. Jimmy Stewart is always Jimmy Stewart. Joan Crawford is always Joan Crawford. And mother didn't want that.
I read in her autobiography, talking about "Casablanca," "David says that I will be happy, I will be photographed beautiful, I'll be wearing beautiful clothes, but I still want to do more. I want to transform myself, and sometimes play nasty and other roles."
KING: Did she, true or not, Ingrid, have an affair at all with Spencer Tracy?
INGRID ROSSELLINI: You're asking me this question? We don't know.
ISABELLA ROSSELLINI: We're the last ones to know.
INGRID ROSSELLINI: The last ones to know, exactly.
KING: I mean, did she ever talk about Spencer Tracy?
LINDSTROM: Tracy? I've never heard that before.
(CROSSTALK)
